Strategic Fan Engagement: Leveraging Data, AI, and Audience Insights

Panelists:

Jason Comfort, Red Light Management
Katie Thompson, Google
Jed Weitzman, Logitix

Moderated by:

Angela Miles-Powell, Ticketmaster

Insights Into Data & AI Shaping the Future

“The return to live events and record-breaking sales & attendance marked a triumphant comeback for our industry last year,” moderator Angela Miles-Powell stated in her opening remarks. “But what lies beneath the surface of this resurgence? To what extent has data-driven decision-making, or even the buzz of AI, played in a role in adapting to these changes? We find ourselves in an era where technology and analytics have become paramount in our efforts to connect with fans. What trends have redefined our industry?” Miles-Powell invited her panelists to share insights into the pivotal role that data and AI are playing in shaping the future of fan engagement and concert promotion.

For Jed Weitzman, it's about looking at all aspects of the data and at different kinds of data. “We concentrate on looking at secondary data,” he said. “And trying to look at what someone is actually willing to pay for a ticket or what they're not willing to pay. We look at comparable artists in the marketplace in order to try to help agents, managers, and artists make informed decisions on how to price their tour. There are lots of tours right now that are having issues because they've priced too high. A lot of people ignore some aspects and are just pricing by their gut. I think we've gotten to a point now where you can actually see what's happening in the marketplace and use that information to make decisions on how to best get tickets in the hands of fans and get fans into your shows. Our goal is to try to help our clients have their inventory everywhere. Certainly on the sports side, it's not as an emotional entanglement as it is on the music side, but the idea that a fan should be able to buy a ticket where they want to buy a ticket. That's not a hit on the primary at all, but it is all about selling tickets and it is all about getting people in the buildings. A lot of clients come to us with underperforming shows.”

Jason Comfort believes in understanding buyer behavior and being able to segment your audience, “It’s more than these are people who like rock and these are people who like country. Knowing a little bit more than just who. It's also the why’s and when’s. That does take investment in various platforms that help sort your data and help you use it as actionable data. But there are partners contributing to that, like Ticketmaster. A lot of us get the question: how big is your database? And it's kind of irrelevant. Is your database gonna reach the right fans? We're starting to see more data-driven pricing decisions – with dynamic pricing during an on-sale, using analytics to kind of figure out pricing in advance, and using that to check against your gut. I think that's a little different this year.”

“And I'm here to ease any concern that “I, Robot” is a minute from happening,” said Katie Thompson. “AI has actually been around for a really long time. What has happened over the last year or two is that you've allowed some sort of machine, or some sort of tool, to make your life easier. So, instead of thinking about this as super scary – which is natural –  think about the ways that you're already leveraging it. It was maybe 3-4 years ago where everybody was like Salesforce or other CRM or data warehouses because that was buzzy, right? But what are you doing with your data? Venues are really interesting. You guys have so many points of entry for data – a ticket sale, Wi-Fi, whatever you're doing that's collecting. But what are you doing with it? It could be monetary if you're thinking about it correctly. For example, with AI you can develop propensity modeling based on who's a last-minute purchaser, who's likely to buy your more expensive tickets, who is a repeat buyer. And then build models that you can leverage AI to help you. Again, trying to make your life a little easier. Using that data – here's the selfish plug – with your Google Ads to make sure that you are continuously reaching the right people with that right message.”

Analytic Tools and Using AI-Powered Algorithms

Miles-Powell stated, “We've actually been using machine learning for a very long time, which is a sub-field of AI.” She asked which analytic tools her panelists use to measure the impact of a specific marketing activity on a particular business outcome. Thompson answered, “Well, I do work for Google. Google Analytics is a tool – that is free of charge – to understand and measure the success of your social, your organic, not just your Google investments. This is kind of twofold – understanding your investments and attribution. We jokingly call it the hangover model. If you don't feel so great the next day, what's your normal reaction? It was that last drink. I was gonna be fine until I had that last glass of wine. That's kind of Google. We're the last drink at the end of the night. Your last click. So where are you there? We can make the argument that maybe it was that margarita you started with, but you have to still have that final drink to really seal the deal. Before I got to Google, I was in the college/pro athletic space. And I would tell them the same thing. I imagine most of you would say ‘I cannot compete with StubHub, Seat Geek, and Ticketmaster in an ads-type format’. And that literally couldn't be further from the truth. There is a difference – at some point your marketing will shut off because you've spent your budget. And theirs will keep going. But Google actually made some decisions to help people that are the primary – the venues – because there is a user base that feels like the venue is trustworthy and that's where we want to go. Which is why, in 2018, Google got into policing the ticketing space. You have all seen some sort of shady example of your box office showing up on Google Ads. We've cleaned that space up, because we wanted to make sure that they were coming to the actual venue. So you can use things like the word official. My point is that there is a place for you, even with a tiny little budget. There is absolutely a place for you to be successful and be the last drink of the night.”

Regarding using AI-powered algorithms in dynamic pricing and how is this affecting ticket sales and fan perceptions of ticket value, Comfort said, “I look at historic data, including secondary from the last play, to compare against your gut check. But then looking at conversion rates during the on sale and how quickly people are buying tickets. Ticketmaster has tools that help with that. These are all things you still want to bounce off of a human being, and a committee if necessary. Are we going to bump up the P1s by $20? That can be very impactful – how it affects fans. We’ve always talked about concert tickets should be sold like hotels, car rentals, or airplane tickets. But people are not sharing ‘hey, I got my ticket to Atlanta on United for $250’ and someone's like ‘what? I'm on that same flight.’ That just doesn't happen. But it can get a little dangerous with fan bases that have that community aspect, like Taylor Swift. People are comparing notes. With a lot of up-and-coming acts, their careers have been 100% in the social space and, if you get if you get a little too aggressive, it’s out there. The other side of the coin is pricing down. But just because an algorithm is telling you to price down your tickets doesn't mean that's what you should do. That's my quote for the day. I don't think AI applies to what a lot of us do with dynamic pricing.”

“I think it can be an interesting guidepost,” said Weitzman. “But I've not seen it work yet. Certainly not in what we do. I hear a lot of talk from a lot of our clients about it. They want to know how it can help with booking. I think it's very helpful with routing tours – how you're going to get from point A to point B, where you're going to stop for gas, etc. But in terms of the gut level of making those choices and informed decisions, I think that's still really a human situation.”

Thompson noted, “Obviously I'm not in the field of the dynamic pricing, but bidding models are something that we are doing, using AI. They are available that help understand things like is this somebody who's been on your site before? Is this someone who has searched your artist before? Is this person consuming content related to your artist or your venue? And we're actually taking those signals to be more efficient because we're trying to drive as many conversions at the highest conversion value that we can. So when it comes to better understanding who's flowing through and who's likely to buy those upper echelon ticket pricings, we're using AI, but mostly in our bidding strategies and models to help make those decisions.”

Pricing Tickets in Small VS Large Markets

Comfort was first to reply, “Think about everything that concert goers have to spend on. It's a lot. Hotels, airfare. And you hear about people going to smaller markets because it's easier and cheaper to get those things and maybe the ticket price is a little less. Or maybe there's not as much heat on the show because it's in a smaller market so there's less secondary. From my personal experience this summer, there was one artist in particular where we absolutely considered the market – knowing the artist's strength in the market, but also knowing the market itself, and knowing that we needed to be a little softer on prices because we wanted people to come and enjoy the show. And if people want to come from out of town and get a slightly better deal on a ticket, so be it. Unfortunately, sometimes the venues don't raise their voices as much, at least from my perspective. There’s the promoter filter.”

“Pricing is not something I'm influencing but I do think is interesting,” said Thompson. “My team works across all ticketing and what we're seeing is less branded searches and more price checking across all of the different channels. So there's not as much loyalty, it feels like. I think that's an interesting conversation because I do think fans are becoming more sophisticated in checking cart orders.” Comfort speculated that this could that be an indicator of economic trends. He said, “Maybe people are just a little more price sensitive? Or at least understanding that they need to shop around? Which is great because you hear those stories of people buying a ticket for $300 on the secondary when the ticket was still available at face value on the primary. Thompson added, “People are getting smarter. I mean, that's a whole other conversation, right? Senate hearings happening about face value. What is face value anymore? I absolutely think that is still extremely relevant. We anecdotally speak about credit card debt being higher than it's ever been. We know live events are back, but is that sustainable?”

What Are You Using AI To Do?

“I think AI is a buzzword,” answered Comfort. “We're already using it as a tool. But, to the question, we are using some text-based messaging services for fans who said ‘yes, you can bother me on my phone.’ We’re getting really great results from that. Another is customer interface chatbots – a chat service on your building's mobile app, or on your website, where people can ask questions. It's a bit more friendly and potentially more personalized than a FAQ page. It’s good for getting answers really quickly, and it means less work answering phones or emails. You start with a base of questions and keep adding to that. Then there’s facial recognition. It is a little more expensive, and it's very controversial. Some venues are using facial recognition – famously, Madison Square Garden and Jim Dolan. From the artist's side, if we have persons of interest and you can just put someone's picture in and, if they enter the building, we know – that's pretty amazing. I see that as becoming more widespread. I talk about privacy concerns but when I go into the Garden, I feel very safe.”

“I always go back to the ‘and duties as assigned’ part of our jobs,” said Thompson. “Like copywriting. Maybe that's not your expertise, but you're expected to update pages on your website. Using AI can help leverage writing that content. The other day, one of our chefs was telling me about how he'll put ingredients into an image AI tool, and it'll give him plating inspiration. That's really cool and unique and different and not creepy. From 30,000 feet, I think we're always kind of like, ugh. But in our day-to-day, it's already happening. There are already things that we're consenting to. And we're like, ‘oh, that doesn't really bother me that much.’ You always want to be responsible with data. But if we get bogged down, we never try anything and no ideas ever see action. We wouldn't suggest that you load all your data into any one AI. I work at Google. I get an email every day that tells me somebody has some data leak. At this point, I don't even think I'm entitled to privacy. Plus, I'd rather be served something that is relevant to me than not. So every time I download an app and it says, ‘can we track you?’ I say, please. Because I want more of the things that I like as opposed to being hit with things I don't. That’s reality. So it's just a matter of curating things that actually are relevant to you. I absolutely appreciate the counter to this argument, but I always think of it as it's making my life easier.”

She added, “I'm very interested in sponsorship. I think this is an incredibly untapped market in terms of first party data. If you are out on places to put sponsorship in your buildings, could you sell them a digital footprint targeting your first party data? Because they're trying to target the people already coming through your doors. It's very, very cheap to target your data on Google with co-branded marketing. AI can also make analyzing post-event data easier and actually drive direction and maybe free up some time. And you want to know something tangible like what do people do after the show? Did they open up their map and go somewhere? Are they looking for something to eat? Then you can team up with a sponsor to send a coupon because people are always going to the pizza place right by the venue. Are they having a drink before they go home? These are things in the future. It may seem creepy from an outside perspective but how cool if you are that person and now you got a 50% coupon off of your pizza? That's actually a really nice experience. How do you make sure that experience is tailored? X person usually parks in lot purple, but purple's full. So you let that person know before they even get to lot purple. It’s making a seamless experience.”

Comfort agreed, “I'm putting on my promoter hat now. Our company is primarily an artist management company, but we actually own and operate venues around the country. And we're involved with festivals. We have a lot of direct communication with the festival ticket buyer. And absolutely, I think AI will be helpful in distilling that information and finding insights from it. Gathering it is important. We send out a post-event email. We're not using any algorithms to create offers or whatever, but you never know. And even if it's just learning that you didn't have enough water stations, or that people were complaining about the price of this or that, it’s absolutely important. You have to know which questions to ask. What are some things I have hunches on? Maybe the audience had issue with something or maybe liked something a lot. I’m looking for assurances, or anything that's contradicting my assumptions. But you need to know what you're trying to get answered. And we are always learning about new audiences as they're developing and maturing, and we’re trying to understand where they get their content, how are they finding out about shows, where are they buying tickets, what they’re willing to spend, when do they buy … and then making changes from that knowledge.”

Underutilized Tools and a Cookie-less World

“I think SMS is a newer tool that has been underutilized,” said Comfort. “Text messaging has been around for ages, but those people tend to be the people who are early buyers, the most passionate fans. But it’s the audience you didn’t reach. The ones not clicking.”

For Thompson, it’s a venue or festival app. “Get people to install your app and then use notifications. It’s very, very cheap. The amount of venue searches is trending. People aren't necessarily searching for artists, but they are going to the venue and looking at what's coming up. Also building out propensity models and really understanding the data you have access to. When it becomes a cookie-less world, you can still actively reach those people over the internet. First-party data is the only thing that is going to be a steel trap in a cookie-less world. It's something that I would prioritize, if you haven't already. Chrome is going to go cookie-less, which means there will be no such thing as third party. Some of my competitors rely heavily on understanding third-party. Let me give you an example. If you are trying to target higher income people on Facebook, some of that data is third-party. They're finding out who owns a yacht, or who has been to a yacht website. That data will no longer be available because we can't track third-party. So you’re going to rely heavily on your first party data. Google Insights won't go away because we have eight owned and operated properties with over a billion users. We have a pretty good idea who these people are. In a cookie-less world, it's about making sure your data is in a place that can target those people on any sort of Google investment. And I'm pretty sure all social channels will allow you to upload your first-party data as well. We’re going to take a hit on conversions. We've already seen it with ITP (Integrated Tactical Planning) with Safari, who did this three years ago when they went cookie-less. Anybody who is doing any sort of digital marketing has already taken a major hit in understanding – in the double-digit range, a percentage of conversions that they're no longer seeing. So there will definitely be changes in which advertisement channels you’re investing in because of the lack of visibility.”

Comfort added, “I would like to see less walls and less restrictions around data. It'd be a wonderful world if we could have a successful show and use the data that's derived from it. The venue finds value in that data – in providing a more personalized experience. The artist could also participate in that data … to maybe market tour merchandise to those fans after the fact, because that's relevant to them. And the promoter can potentially use that data as well to help promote a similar artist at the venue in the future. I don't know if that will ever happen, but that's my wish.”

“Tons of automation is coming,” stated Weitzman. “It's just getting that correct. Let's not lose sight of the human touch. And let's realize that this technology can be incredibly helpful, but it's only as good as the way you use it.” Thompson agreed, “I don't think AI is supposed to have sentiment. That's the argument, right? So it's always going to be crucial to have a human element in anything and everything you do.”