Agents Power Panel
sponsored by NS2 and FCP Live
Panelists:
Callender, Wasserman Music
Rob Gibbs, UTA
Meredith Jones Long, CAA
Adam Kornfeld, IAG
Nick Nuciforo, UTA
Kevin Shivers, WME
Moderated by:
Becky Colwell, The Kia Forum
The Role of the Music Agent Today
Adam Kornfeld began the conversation by stating that the role of the agent has definitely evolved, “Merging with APA – a full-service agency – I’ve seen this up close and personal this year. Artists are now multi-hyphenates and want to be involved in so many things in all different media – successfully and smartly not just because ‘Hey, I want to do it.’ And I realize the need for specialty. I need specialists to navigate the business because it’s so tricky. Movies, books, directing, acting, producing. One of the agency’s biggest clients is 50 Cent who has incredible touring business but is also an incredible TV impresario. It’s fascinating how many shows and careers he’s involved in, and how smart and cool this guy is.”
Kevin Shivers believes we see mergers and acquisitions in the agency world because agencies are trying to provide more services to clients. “It’s like an arms race,” he said. “Everyone is buying different companies and I think it’s going to help everyone be more successful.”
“It was different earlier in our careers,” said Rob Gibbs. “We were the gatekeepers before social media. Artists got smart and thought ‘Why do I need and agent.’ Well, we’re smart too. And we know how to craft the right deals for you. But at the same time, we’ve got to be able to offer them film, television, branding, business in equity, and all those different things. It’s as simple as that.”
For Meredith Jones Long, finding the right cultural fit is important. “We’re a little over a year into the ICM acquisition,” she said. “Artemis just acquired the majority stake from TPG. And all of this was based on what is right for the company culture.”
Nick Nuciforo answered the question through the lens of a comedy agent, “When I became an agent in 1996, there wasn’t much of a comedy business. You could sell out comedy clubs and maybe there were six artists who could play theaters. I’ve been on the frontlines of comedy’s explosion, and the business has changed immensely in opportunity, size, and scope. There are more artists now playing 1,000 seats up to arenas than ever before. If you look at some of the schedules of some of the greatest venues in North America – Chicago Theater, for example – I would place a bet that 70% of their calendar is comedy or non-traditional entertainment. I’m working on 7-8 arena tours for next year and I never thought that would be a thing. And to echo what Adam said, we’re working directly with our clients to help craft and guide the strategy for the ascension of their careers and we’re doing it with a team of skilled agents who are specialists in motion pictures, television, podcasting, and all the areas that impact the artist’s career.”
Callender added, “I don’t think the role of the agent has changed but that there are a finite number of agents who are really good at their jobs. When I got into the role of an agent, I looked at it like a manager and looked at ways to add value to the artist’s career whether that’s connecting them with someone at Nike or knowing another producer or artist they should work with. I don’t want to say this is the right or wrong way to do the job. Some people could dive in and book a show – knowing the right venue and how to scale that business – that’s the traditional way to do the job. But I think there are other ways to add value to an artist’s career. Artists are now writers and producers and, if you’re able to pull that out of your artist, that’s always the role of the agent.”
Moderator Becky Colwell noted, “As a venue operator, I’ve paid a lot of attention to who is the promoter of the show. Over the past few years, who is the agent has become more important.”
She asked her panelists, “How important is the agent’s relationship with the venue?” Callender replied, “Super important. If you have a late load-in or curfew, you want to be able to pick up the phone. We all rely on each other to keep the ecosystem flowing. If we don’t have a relationship, the fan experience suffers. And the artist.”
For Kornfeld, the venue-agent relationship starts with routing. “It comes before the promoter,” he said. “I sometimes call buildings before I have a promoter. I pride myself on good relationships with buildings.” Long relies on venues for local knowledge like what’s working and at what ticket price. “Those things are so localized. If you’re not paying attention to the granular information, you’re doing a disservice to your clients.” Colwell added, “Speaking as a venue operator, it’s really important for the venues to understand the artist’s objectives. We can treat them really special when they’re there.”
When Does a Tour Deal Make Sense?
“A lot of factors go into a tour deal,” Shivers began. “We’re into tour deal situations when we get into theaters and arenas and above, and you can take offers from all different tour promoters. Money is a factor. If the money is greater than individual offers, then that’s a quick answer. Who you partner with is a factor. If you can talk to one person, it’s a better use of your time – if the other factors are there. If there’s a date change or you want to move the announce, it’s easier than calling 30 different people. And you’re looking for great partnerships – someone who will step up and help you if things go bad.”
“That’s a great answer and I’ll add to that,” said Gibbs. “It depends on the artist too. You may not have talent that will lean into marketing, so having a tour promoter is key because that artist may not be on social media. I need someone to dig in and also stay consistent market-to-market. If you go independently, one market may do something different from another market and then there’s inconsistency.”
Kornfeld, “It’s important to find the person or people in the company who have a real passion for the project. You want someone invested in helping you, not just a business deal. They really become part of the team. The money is great, but having a partner is key.” Meredith Jones Long wholeheartedly agreed, “It’s about shared vision. I work with Jay Wilson at Red Mountain which is probably considered a regional promoter. But Jay really got along well with Whiskey Myers and they said, ‘He’s our guy.’ We work with Jay and he helps navigate the Live Nation system for us. While it’s not a traditional tour deal, it’s still a real partnership.”
Nuciforo noted that additional marketing from tour deals can really accelerate artist development.
Secondary & Tertiary Markets and Underplays, Multiples & Small Cap Venues
Moderator Becky Colwell moved the conversation to choosing markets, “When you’re putting together big tours and they’re hitting the biggest cities in North America, what are your thoughts of tertiary markets? In the past few years, that’s where people have started to move.”
“I live in tertiary markets working in country and Americana,” Long quickly replied. “It’s interesting. It’s artist-by-artist and where their fans live and what kinds of costs are important to fans. For example, Philadelphia – really expensive to park, really expensive to eat, really expensive to stay. But Reading, PA – amazing! Free parking. Street parking. So we don’t have to diminish the value of the ticket price and diminish the value of the artist. We can keep a consistent valuation and still offer fans some relief on those expensive, bit city costs.” Nuciforo jumped in saying, “Going into tertiary markets has been huge for comedy. For me, it all began when I was doing Blue Collar and all the derivative tours from those guys. I realized there are a lot of venues between New York and L.A. It’s a huge marketplace and an under-serviced marketplace. A couple of thoughts: there’s tons of traffic right now in the majors any given night of the week. Any week it could look like a comedy festival. But when you go to secondary and tertiary markets, the fans are excited to be served. Jim Gaffigan is a longtime client of mine. For years, he’s played about every place there is to play. Similarly, we’re now seeing so many artists burn bright in the middle of the country – the Leanne Morgans, the Nate Bargatzes, the John Crists. We’re pulling a lot of money out of places that most people couldn’t find on a map.”
Kornfeld remarked that the definition of a tertiary seems to be changing. “We talked about Witchita being a tertiary market 20 years ago and now they’re celebrating the 20th anniversary of their arena which hosts all the major shows. There are also tertiary markets that become major markets when populations explode. You could say Tulsa and Austin were secondary markets 20 years ago. Now Austin is a major, major market. People are doing multiples there regularly. It’s fascinating.”
UTA just opened an Atlanta office, the first major talent agency to come into the market. “For decades now, Atlanta has really driven culture,” said Gibbs. “So for us to be first and plant our flag and amplify these creative Southern voices is the goal. There’s a lot of great young talent – young executives – coming out of the region. For us, it’s educating. We want to professionalize their passion – in sports, music, film. We’re really leaning in. We’re not just coming in as a big agency and just doing our day jobs, we’re reaching back into the community. We have a conference entitled “Unlock 404,” which is a digital creator conference that we own and partner with a company out of Los Angeles called Crown + Conquer to produce. We’re doing things differently … and planting our flag.”
Maren Morris recently played under-play shows for her fan club at Joe’s on Weed in Chicago. Long elaborated, “It’s an over-arching theme – meeting artists where they’re at and what they want to celebrate. Maren has new songs and she said, ‘I want my fans to hear them first.’ So she’s gonna do a couple of pop-up shows to celebrate that music – some clubs she played on her first tour, some clubs she never got to play because she rose pretty quickly. It’s gonna be really fun. And artists want to flex different muscles – acoustic runs in theaters and performing a completely different set. Or Christmas tours in theaters. I think it’s good for artists to meet their fans in different ways and not tour exactly the same way every year.
Kornfeld added, “With smaller venues, I’ve been working on multiple nights. Not a residency but 2-3 nights somewhere for a band that might have trouble filling the larger venue. It’s an extra buzz for the artist in that town. Back to tertiary markets, as they expand, we have more places to play and more opportunities to tour. You can extend tours or you could skip markets more frequently than you did in the past because you can play other places. We’re all saying there are a lot of acts out but there are more places to play too.”
Who & What To Look For in 2024 and beyond
Colwell asked her panelists about acts going on the road next year and emerging genres.
Kornfeld: “Metallica is on sale for next year and we’re working on 2025. And there’s no doubt there’s more niche entertainment than ever before. It’s fascinating when you look at schedules for certain venues – there’s almost no one who could know everyone that’s playing because there are so many different types of shows from countries all over the world. It’s one big, happy party.”
Gibbs: J Cole, Carol G, and (maybe) Bad Bunny
Shivers: Kid Cudi, Olivia Rodrigo, Zach Bryan, Shakira, Luis Miguel, Foo Fighters, and Tyler, The Creator
Long: “Cody Johnson had a great on sale last weekend. Little Big Town on their 25th anniversary tour. Jelly Roll is having some amazing success; you’ll see him out. Dan + Shay are back with new music and a new tour. And Tim McGraw. We would be remiss if we didn’t talk about the Americana scene. We’ve seen headliners emerge like Zach Bryan and Tyler Childers. A bunch of festivals have popped up in tertiary markets like Lexington and Oregon. It’s different. It’s much bigger which means that the emerging scene is incredible – the finds on Tik Tok and Spotify – it’s exciting.”
Nuciforo: “There’s a long, long list. Just about everyone is working. In comedy, there a couple of trends we’re seeing. Touring podcasts continue to be a huge growth area. We put up Kill Tony on New Year’s Eve at H-E-B Center in Austin, sold out every quickly, and added a second show. It’s gonna be live-streamed. Alex Cooper blew out as fast as the transactions would allow. On the straight-ahead comedy side, it’s really all about the middle of the country right now. It’s our version of Americana. The algorithms have been incredible for us -- on YouTube, on social media, on Netflix, on Amazon. Nate Bargatze’s is a story I’ve got to tell about this. This last January, he put out a special on Amazon. Amazon is so impactful in the center of the country. Amazon Prime is a service people subscribe to to get boxes sent to their house. And if you do that, you get a free subscription to Prime Video. It’s a service for people who do not have a lot of access to stores and the ability to get things. It’s small-town America. What it’s done for Nate has been explosive. Nate set the attendance record at Bridgestone Arena earlier this year. But beyond that, he’s now doing two shows at the arena in Fort Worth, doing two shows at the arena in Atlanta, doing two shows at the arena in Tampa. He just did 32,000 people at a 3-night run in Salt Lake City. And most people don’t know who he is yet. But it’s showing the power of the center of the country.”