What Agents Want YOU to Know About 2025
sponsored by NS2 and FPC Live
Panelists:
Keith Levy, Wasserman Music
Jbeau Lewis, UTA
Jenna Park Adler, CAA
Adi Sharma, The Neal Agency
Seth Seigle, WME
Moderated by:
Hallie Yavitch, AEG (Crypto.com Arena/Peacock Theater/L.A. Live)
Touring Strategies for Multiples vs Larger Plays
Hallie Yavitch kicked off the conversation by asking Jbeau Lewis to talk about making the decision to play multiples and why he would do it or not? “As agents,” Lewis responded, “Our job is always to understand the goals and intentions of the artist and to help execute that by doing whatever the right thing might be for that tour – not only for strategic career development but also financially. They are equally important. Sometimes that means fewer shows. Sometimes that means more shows in smaller venues. You may make the decision to play multiples in one market and skip altogether a market that may be adjacent to that location, because you want to focus your sales on that particular place.”
Collaborating with Venues
Yavitch asked her panelists, “Can a venue just call you and make a pitch? How are they going to get you to look at them differently?” Jenna Adler said yes and suggested, “Be entrepreneurs. Be open minded. Be able to move with us. We have ideas. Our artists have ideas. Our goal is to help execute.” Lewis added, “Agents want to be super intentional about helping our artists expand the footprint of where they can play. When we speak with our clients, they also want to go to new places.”
Seth Seigle noted that data is crucial for venues to demonstrate to agents the potential for ticket sales in specific markets. “If the building is over indexing, if the market is sensitive, or if there is an opportunity that we're not familiar with, we should know about that and share that with our clients.”
Keith Levy loves a pitch and loves hearing ideas. He agreed that data on past similar shows in the venue is super helpful. “Venues are getting better at putting themselves inside the artist brain and asking themselves ‘What can separate us from any other show day?’ I think you do have to pitch, separate yourself, and go the extra mile. Anything you can do to be a differentiator – to make the artist feel like it's not just another day – goes a long way. I’ve seen baristas, puppies, a cold plunge, a sauna. Certainly, we have to make X number of dollars to make it work. Sometimes that's secondary. Sometimes it's not. Ultimately, at least for me, it is ‘What does the artist remember?’ They remember how the day went and how they felt.”
Seigle suggested being a really good partner to the artist, “You may lead with incentives for rehearsals or load-ins, so that the financial experience was less of a burden.”
Adler added, “On top of all of the metrics, we are still in a relationship-based business across all verticals. Let's have the spirit of unity and make it really easy for everybody – agents, managers, artists, building folks, and everyone.”
Feedback and Communication
Following up, Yavitch asked if her panelists receive feedback from managers and tour managers. Adler asks for feedback on every show because it helps inform future decisions. Lewis agreed and added, “If an artist and their team has a very positive – or very negative – experience in any particular place, you may be on the map for that artist – or not – for the foreseeable future. And I think we've all been surprised. You go into a market you weren't sure about on a Monday night and it's incredible. So, you want to go back there next time. On the flip side, you can go into some of the most iconic buildings on the planet and have a terrible time. It goes both ways.”
The Effects of Stadiums on Mid-Tier and Smaller Venues
“The big artists have gotten bigger. Those grosses have gotten bigger. Inflation has benefited those artists,” Levy stated. “It feels like a tale of two cities. Consumers are spending more dollars on those kinds of shows – arenas, stadiums, maybe festivals. And it's really hurting the middle downward.”
Sharma agreed, “When you have 3-4 stadium acts playing the same city, you're seeing $150M to $200M come out of the market. There's only so much money to go around, and it's gonna hurt the middle and bottom tiers.”
Adler added, “That's where strategy comes in. In the middle, you have to be able to evaluate when to go and when not to go into a market. When there are 3-4 stadium or arena acts going through each territory, we (as representatives) have to be careful and not be greedy. Everybody used to say that agents throw darts at a map to route tours. To the contrary, we are more careful than ever to really be strategic.” Yavitch noted that deep relationships can help inform these strategies, “Venues, promoters, and agents need to share information about what is happening in the market.”
Mental Health in the Industry
Yavitch turned the discussion to artists and their mental health. “Listening to your artists and just being in tune with them is super helpful,” Adler replied. “I think mental health is such a welcome and open topic of dialogue these days. It is better for us now. I work with artists who were toured into the ground early on in their careers. Now, they hate touring. So maybe I get ten shows out of a cycle on them. If an artist is struggling, pull them off the road. First, foremost and forever, our job is to be advocates of the artists. That means doing whatever is best for that artist all the time. When times are tough, we've got to be able to help them get through it. If that means coming off the road, that's what it is.”
“We're all human beings first, right?” Sharma shared. “I think that gets lost. We all suffer from and deal with different things. If you have open, honest conversations with your artists, it leads them to being a lot more open and honest with you. When you hear them going through something, take the time to ask questions. And listen to them. And if you start to see they need some help, then it's time to come off the road. It's not worth it.”
Yavitch believes that audiences are sympathetic when an artist needs to take time off. “In the past,” she said, “That’s not something fans would have been okay with. I think they are now.”
Lewis added, “This circles back to being in lockstep with clients. Just plopping a routing down in front of an artist and saying ‘Here's your tour. Take it or leave it.’ suggests that every artist feels the same way about how many shows a week they want to play, how much they're willing to travel, etc. As Jenna said earlier, we have to listen. That's the first thing we have to do to.”
Yavitch followed up with a more personal question, “How do YOU get through a bad day?” “I talk to my therapist” responded Levy. “I think it's important to have somebody to talk to – a spouse, someone in your office or a professional.”
Lewis is committed to a daily exercise routine. “I’m religious about exercising every morning,” he said. “It’s a recentering, destressing, take your mind off work, sweat it out and feel better afterwards moment. Thankfully, that keeps me pretty level for the day.”
Adler agreed, “I think that we all gravitate towards things that we really like and that relax us. It's just really taking that time for yourself – in that safe space – and knowing that it's OK to just shut down for an hour.”
Crystal Ball Predictions for 2025
Sharma: “We’re going to see a lot more creative packaging, especially in the country format and for that mid-tier.”
Adler: “I think we're going to see more residencies, not just in Vegas but across the country. I think a lot of artists are gonna stick to 5 or 6 cities and play multiple nights. You see it happening already. And I also think the globalization of tours is paramount. The world is becoming more interconnected. As we start going into Gen A, I think that it's all going to be globalized. As entrepreneurs, as representatives and as service providers, all of us sitting in this room need to start thinking on more of a global scale. The big promoters and the big agencies are global. We're all spending more and more time in each other’s territories. It's all going to be connected.”
Seigle: “I think ticketing will continue to be a hot button topic through the 24 months.”
Levy: “My prediction on the DOJ antitrust thing – nothing is going to happen and it will be a giant waste of time and taxpayer dollars. I think it's an issue that members of Congress largely are misinformed about. There's immense pressure on what we do from a ticketing perspective. The secondary market is unregulated, and it's a multibillion-dollar industry. That’s unique to America. The sports industry makes so much money from it. When we talk about free market, capitalism and supply & demand, I do think it's good to be able to resell a ticket at market value. But I think that has to be regulated. Sports teams are ten years ahead of where we are on the tech and are utilizing the whole marketplace.” He also weighed in on globalization, “The walls of distribution are gone. When an artist puts a song out, people in Shanghai can listen to it at the same time as people in London or Nashville. That has opened up giant markets – like Mexico City, for example – for artists who maybe didn't have an audience there before. These territories could learn from how we execute a primary ticketing on-sale. In Europe, there are strict anti-scalping measures and laws. When I get a tour offer in Europe, the ticket prices originally offered are usually 40-50% of our average ticket price here. I realize their economic disparities, but I often feel like promoters in other territories are not exactly paying attention to what's going on with an artist around the world. I feel like it's constant coaching – a) people will travel – it's easier to get anywhere in the world than it's ever been, b) here's what we think it's worth, and c) reframe how you view a successful on-sale. In Europe, the metric for a successful on-sale is an immediate sellout. What made that successful? Could you have pulled more dollars out of the market? We probably didn't price to market in a true way. I think the Zach Bryan tour and Morgan Wallen tour are good examples of pricing to market. The P1s are getting into the $400-$500 range, and the shows don't sell out right away. I think there's a new narrative of ‘successful.’ And I think that's probably good for us and for the ecosystem.”
Lewis wrapped by adding, “Understanding how every individual market around the world works is critical. We are going to be dealing with different circumstances. There are places where dynamic pricing is illegal, and places where you cannot change the ticket price once the show is on sale. There are places that traditionally sell earlier or sell late. We must understand all these things. We're all accustomed in the U.S. to this notion of being able to launch a tour all at the same time, with great consistency across all the markets. Try doing that in South America! It's impossible. Just to try working through the permitting, regulations, ticketing, promoters and sponsors, etc., etc. It will be an exciting day when territories like that catch up technologically, because we know there are super fertile markets for touring that exist outside of North America.”