Strategy Before Tactics: A Holistic Approach to Marketing
Panelists:
Lucy Albers, ASM OKC
Raziel Cano, CMN
Kate Girotti, ASM Global
Ashley Hurley, Live Nation
Nicole Neal, AEG Presents
Moderated by:
Aaron Bare, Etix & Rockhouse Partners
Privacy
Aaron Bare opened this session by recapping changes which are forcing marketers to adapt their strategies to be more privacy-centric with the collection and use of user data. “It started with GDPR,” he said. “Followed by the California state law. The biggest ripple effect was Apple's iOS 14.5 release. Restrictions in Safari, where a lot of e-commerce happens. The more privacy is restricted through these platforms, the less companies like Facebook know about their users, and that really affects how we target ads. So, how have you dealt with all of this?”
“It’s all about data and, with all these changes, we're not getting as much,” said Ashley Hurley. “We're losing the amount of time that we can capture fans. We just gotta be really intricate in the data we capture so that we can target them in the other ways we know how to.”
Nicole Neal has a proprietary registration tool. She shared, “Brooke Michael Kane has armed us with an amazing tool. And it is meant to be used as a marketing tool so that we can collect the data, have the ability to target & retarget, and share the data with the artist. At a tour’s launch, instead of using a major ticketing company's platform, we use our own. It's been wildly successful. We just did it on Zach Bryan. We've done it on Kane Brown and BLACKPINK. We've done it on a host of tours.”
Kate Girotti offered a perspective from the venue side, “We are lucky to have a privacy department that's working with us to make sure that we're in compliance with everything we do. The privacy policy says we can share data with our partners. What does that mean? Our legal and analytics teams are going to the ticketing companies to make sure we're not in violation in any way. And making sure all language is correct and updated – websites, email databases. To retarget, make sure you have that language that says people approve that. We're very on top when somebody opts out. It's not just an opt out of an email blast. We're opting them out of everything. We take them out of our retargeting. We take them out of our programmatic. It's hard because, if they buy another ticket, you can remarket them again. You just have to be diligent.
Neal quickly added, “Which is why we use multiple channels. As the promoter, we have our channels. Venues have your channels. Ticketing has their channels. We're hitting the consumer on multiple channels at multiple points of entry because we're forced to.”
Raziel Cano linked privacy to branding, “I think a great way to combat privacy laws is to work hard on our brand. For CMN, it’s making sure the fan has identified CMN as the voice for Latin tours. So if you want to go to a Latin tour, if your favorite artist is Latin – you're going to visit our socials. And I think having a database and a newsletter is extremely beneficial because, from the get-go, the user accepts all terms and conditions when they're signing up.”
Panelists noted that care must be taken with partnership emails. Hurley clarified, “Our sponsorship team is always like, ‘Can you send this ad for X partner?’ If somebody hasn't signed up for a partnership email, you can't email them from a partner. When you're collecting data, know what they're actually opting into. I can't send Nicole an email for a Ford truck just because Ford is a sponsor of mine.”
Discovery Platforms
“The data informs the channels you're gonna be on,” said Neal. “Obviously, the Meta channels are the biggest for us. TikTok's really big. Spotify pre-sale, Spotify platform – Spotify is a huge mover of the needle. And even if it's not, everybody thinks it is, so we do it. TikTok is probably the biggest new platform for us and it’s just trying to crack that code. Another thing too, and I think this speaks to the really dynamic team we have, is being able to adjust your buys in real time. As marketers, I think we can all agree that the worst thing is hearing from a fan that they didn't know the show was coming. I think the more channels you can get, the better.”
About TikTok, Cano said, “For targeted ads, affinity, the way you design an ad on TikTok is not as specific and granular as you could on Facebook and Instagram. And that's fact. I think that Facebook/Meta is king. But TikTok serves well when you're looking to spread out awareness from your show. We've had some incredible click-through rates up to 50-60% on an ad. It's very effective. The only problem is that it's not as granular. It's just another tool to have in your kit. One more thing worth mentioning – there's something called spark ads where, if you have an influencer create a video that's really working for you, you can use that as a spark ad and deliver it to all the people that you want to and serve it as an ad. We found a lot of success stories on that as well.”
Panelists noted that TikTok is different content, shorter in length, and formatted differently. They cautioned that it should feel authentic to the people who are watching the platform and makes sense for the artist. “With TikTok, and even Instagram Reels now, I don't think it has to just be sales or an ad,” said Albers. “For us, it's a lot of branding. We try to come up with something creative that maybe throws back to a show or catches your eye. I think I read a stat that people have to hear about a show almost 7x before they buy tickets. So creating a reel just puts it in their head and creating a Facebook post puts it in their head – just keep reminding people. A lot of people will see the ad and take a screenshot so you might not get the credit for buying on TikTok or Instagram. So even though it might not convert instantly, it does get in their psyche.”
Panelists agreed Spotify is a challenge because, if you're paying for a premium membership, you're not getting ads. Panelists are very pleased with Spotify’s event section. Cano added, “If you work closely with the labels, Spotify actually sends e-blasts to all the fans who are actually listening to an artist on Spotify – they have identified them. Bandsintown does the same thing.”
Snapchat and Pinterest have been performing well for Albers. She added, “We rely on digital teams from AEG, Live Nation, and CMN to help us on the national platforms – Spotify, Bandsintown. But on the local level, it's important for us to make sure all of our listings are correct. We're fighting the random, ‘Oh I just googled it and I used paycom-tickets.com to buy my tickets’ because people just don't know. I'm getting tagged by Instagram accounts that are ‘Here's what's going on in Oklahoma City’ and they link to a wrong account. So it's important to watch that too.”
“I think the biggest thing that we're battling right now is music licensing,” Hurley added. “Get advanced licensing or use the music already on the platform, instead of using your original, because sometimes that gets flagged. I can't remember what show it was that we recently announced, but they literally sent us a list of approved songs.”
A Holistic Approach
“I'd like to say that it's not just about digital,” Neal stated. “We're not in a world where we're one channel yet. We're still using radio and TV, while not as much depending on the audience. OTT, which is digital, has performed really well for us. Outdoor – massive, massive still. There is a balance of paid and organic. And the mix of channels we talked about earlier. The organic channels are usually what the artist is pushing out and what we're asking the venues to push out. It is meant to support the paid campaigns.”
For Albers, radio is still key for music. She believes radio will always be in the mix. “I hate to say but print is kind of on the way out,” she said. “Unless you have an older artist. When you have a lot of comedy shows or very physical shows, like Cirque du Soleil, TV is really important. On the local level, it’s getting into the local community. It's the grassroots, it's the social media. Really focusing on localizing that media then obviously working with all of our promoter partners and complementing their strategy with our local strategy.” Local and regional marketers are in constant contact with national marketers to ensure they are not buying the same platforms.
Regarding grassroots efforts, Girotti added, “Everybody's digital first now. Everybody thinks you're just going to start posting and emailing and you're going to sell all these tickets. But don't forget about your grassroots. Locals know the way to get through the noise. Really connecting with your community and creating those partnerships with bars, restaurants, hotels, grocery stores, whatever it is, and getting information out there in a way that people don't even realize that they're getting served an ad. Desert Diamond Arena is in the middle of an entertainment district. Our marketers work with our beverage partners and put branding and QR codes on coasters. We put them in our arena and in all the bars and restaurants in the district. So people are just sitting there having a beer and they're like, ‘Oh, I didn't know so-and-so was playing here.’ And they can buy a ticket right then and there. Give somebody a couple of tickets and they're gonna let you put a poster up. They're gonna let you do a coaster. Build a relationship with the college in your town so you can get in-game giveaways. Supermarkets will play your spots in their stores and may actually have Ticketmaster kiosks. And it's so much fun to be creative – like Paint the Town Red for Reba where venues, malls, and buildings changed their lights to red. We're all so constricted with our marketing budgets, especially at the local level. When you can come up with these ideas and get people behind them, it doesn't really end up costing anything but makes a big impact. And from a digital perspective, you can't just sell them all the time, right? You can't just put up, ‘Hey, this artist is coming, buy this ticket, do it.’ You have to tell a story on your social pages and on your website. If there's no reason for them to keep coming back, they won’t.”
“I think the best organic tool is the artist announcement,” Cano said. “We're still heavily relying on that. If we're going on sale and the artist does not share the message, we're in a bind. And it has happened before, where we have to chase down the artist camp to make sure that they're supporting us on their social channels organically. Press releases are still very important. News pieces are still very important, depending on the show genre. Speaking of word of mouth, I think it's a beautiful scenario when you release a pre-sale code and, organically through word of mouth, it gets spread around and now everybody's got tickets and you haven't even gone on sale. That's a great situation to be in as a promoter.”
“It's like Christmas when I get content from our clients,” Hurley said. “It’s the best thing ever. But that doesn’t mean you can’t create really cool, creative local content and local campaigns that don’t rely on the artists -- Paint the Town Red or Make the Town Glitter or cowboy boots and mullets for Morgan Wallen. Use nostalgia. People love that right now. It's huge. We did a promotion that was post a picture of your teenage self and your New Kids On The Block shirt to win a pair of tickets. When you're telling your venue story, what is that experience from street to seat? What is your activation in front of that Instagram-able moment? What is that cocktail-of-the-night? Are you promoting seat upgrades? What are those moments that help people understand what it's like to go to your venue and why they want to go to your venue over doing something else that night? Just posting three amazing photos from the soundboard. Or a quick video clip from every show. Photos and videos do way better than static graphics. I get better engagement if I post a cool live shot of the artist versus the ad mat. Getting good content is number one for us. And then I think also having that community list, the grassroots side. The community side is often under looked, especially when we're talking about Latin marketing. When we had Santa Fe Klan, we went out into the community with posters. Everybody knew the artist but none of them knew he was coming to town because it's a whole new audience that doesn't know us. And I think that's such an important piece.”
Girotti also utilizes her venue network to make sure artists are successful not only when they're in ASM buildings but also when they have something else going on. “A good example is Carrie Underwood,” Neal shared. “She's been an AEG touring client for 17 years. She just released a deluxe of her Denim & Rhinestones album. She's not on tour right now, but she's in Vegas. Because we have a very artist development-centric marketing department, we reached out to Girotti and all of the buildings on the previous tour and asked everyone to post about her album release. It's not just about butts and seats for tickets. We look at the artist's career as a holistic 360 view. Any way we can help promote all things for the artist is going to benefit all of us.”
Artists Within a Genre Are Not the Same
For Hurley, it’s important to learn what platforms your audience lives on. “I'm a firm believer that you don't have to create content for every show for every platform,” she said. “Figure out what platform hits that audience and use that. We use a lot of our announcement posts to figure out where our highest engagement is. We announced Olivia Rodrigo and Twitter was insane. So, that's what we have to target. But we announced Rod Wave and Facebook was incredible. So now you're not having to create five different videos for every single platform.”
“That's a great point,” said Neal. “You talked about Santa Fe Klan. We talked about Latin on our call a couple weeks ago. With Latin, there's reggaeton, there's regional Mexican, there's all the things and they don't all behave the same way. The Karol G's and Bad Bunnies are selling out at the on sale. Santa Fe Klan was a push because the fans were not used to going to these venues. So it was trying to get them to understand where they needed to go to get the ticket, and maybe they're not buying tickets until the week of the show. It's knowing the differences in the artists you're promoting, and the channels that are gonna respond. I think it's the same with K-pop. There's a lot more K-pop and that definitely behaves differently. So just knowing what it is that you're marketing. And whether it's New York or San Antonio or whatever. It's gonna behave differently in each of those places too.”
Cano agreed, “All Latin artists are not the same. And let it be known, there is probably a Hispanic community waiting to buy tickets somewhere in the United States. Nashville – it's not the most representative city for Hispanics, but it's still 10% Hispanic. There's a big workforce here seeking entertainment opportunities. If you look at where Hispanics spend their money, it is actually entertainment. We mentioned Santa Fe Klan. We mentioned Bad Bunny, Karol G. How about Grupo Firme? You guys heard of them? Yeah? Grupo Frontera? That's a whole other group that just rose to fame very recently – a regional Mexican group that's now actually doing crossovers with reggaeton artists and all sorts of different folks. So the way that you advertise and market that show is completely different than you would a Bad Bunny or a Karol G. And the reason why is because Bad Bunny, Karol G, J Balvin, they've jumped over to general market. So you can actually advertise those folks in general market stations, whereas Grupo Frontera or maybe Grupo Firme might not have done that yet. So it's very important to know the differences. And something else, our family entertainment division at CMN actually represents Feld Entertainment and PBR. So we are reeducating folks. We’re letting them know how, ‘Hey, a Disney on Ice ticket is $20, $25, $30. It's reachable.’ You all know that Ringling is back, right? With Feld Entertainment, we're creating educational pieces to educate the Hispanic audience about what goes on in Ringling – the highlights of this brand-new event. I think Lucy mentioned the posters for Santa Fe Klan. We still do that. We go into the meat markets. We go into the fruit markets. Grassroots is still very important among the Latin community. And on translation, do not use Google Translate! Google Translate is not accurate at all. Stay away from that, please.”
“We had Santa Fe Klan,” Neal added. “And we're just wrapping up Carin León. Same management teams. And they both sold very, very differently. Audiences are completely, completely different. Different radio play. Is it streaming versus not streaming? Where is the audience listening? How is all of that working and connecting. I think having a price point for everybody is important. One caveat … no matter what it is, it's a family show because they're bringing the kids. One of the things that we did for Santa Fe Klan, which was impactful, was doing fruit cart marketing outside the venues leading up to the show. With Carin León, has anybody seen the ‘Fuck Regional’ campaign? Okay, so Carin was instrumental in launching this campaign, ‘Fuck Regional.’ It's basically saying that regional Mexican is now global. And don't just call it a specific thing because it covers many genres. And it's trickling down in the Latin community. He's gotten a lot of press, mainstream press as well as Latin press.”
“Make sure you're advertising a Latin show in Spanish,” Girotti pointed out. “With your promoter, putting the Spanish and the English text in your posts. And if you need a Spanish radio or TV spot, reach out. Don't just use what they've given you if you know your market doesn't respond that way. All of our promoters have experts on their team that are bilingual, and they will give you the proper translation.”
“We actually work with our Spanish radio station,” Albers added. “We'll send them copy to translate for us. If you think you don't have a Hispanic audience, you probably do. You just don't know it. We used to do maybe one Latin show a year, and now we're doing 4-6, maybe more. It's huge, and you should be learning it. I remember specifically working on Santa Fe Klan. We had a call with AEG. I'm going to be very honest; I didn't know who the artist was. And they said ‘He's huge in his community. He's very community focused.’ So, great, this is the artist that we have to get into the community for. We have Luis Miguel coming up, which is going to probably break the Latin gross record at our venue. When I would go out and talk to people, they're like, ‘I've never been to Paycom Center because nothing's really attracted me there before.’ So you have to teach them about your venue. And it is really groundwork to kind of get out there.”
Hurley concluded the discussion by stating, “No matter what genre you are in, and certainly in Latin, within the genre the shows aren't the same. The tours aren't the same. Year to year, the same artist is not the same. This is not a plug and chug business. Every single tour, every single show, every single market is completely different. So you can't market shows the exact same way. And if you did something that’s not working, make sure you're digging in deep to the analytics and who the artist is, who support is, and who the fan is.”