Agents Power Panel
Panelists:
Lenore Kinder, Wasserman Music
Jbeau Lewis, UTA
Austin Neal, The Neal Agency
Yves Pierre, CAA
Aaron Tannenbaum, WME
Moderated by:
Jay Byrd, Live Nation
The State of the Concert Business
Moderator Jay Byrd began by recapping what went right in 2021: reopening our show pipeline, successfully navigating COVID policies & procedures, restoring consumer and artist confidence in live shows, and many companies focusing on diversity, equity, and inclusion. He asked his panelists, “What went right in 2022?”
“We learned the lessons of reopening in 2021,” replied Jbeau Lewis. “Being strategic about marketing efforts and timing, being strategic about how you package artists on tour, and working far in advance with your production teams to make sure you have the necessary sound, lights, buses, & trucks.”
“Staffing issues were huge coming out of the pandemic,” said Austin Neal. “I think, going into 2023, we are worrying less about staffing and we can focus more on shows.”
Yves Pierre said, “I’ll say grace. We gave people a chance to step back if they needed to. I think just being a little bit more human as opposed to just making money.”
Byrd moved the conversation to ticket prices and traffic and said, “I read that we had 30% more shows this year than ever before. Despite that higher show count, fans continued to buy tickets and it wasn't just the cheap tickets. So, is it here to stay or do you think there's a correction coming?”
“We need to recognize that the last couple of years have been unpredictable in a lot of ways,” Lewis answered. “When you add in the effects of COVID, the economy and globalism, we haven’t been able to predict things we once could. Over the last couple of years, we've all had to own up to the fact that there's a lot of stuff we don't know.”
“Regarding price resistance, I feel like people are spending more money on tickets than ever,” said Neal. “Even with club dates, we are seeing most of the capacity bought up by brokers now and there is some price resistance starting for some shows.”
Kinder believes that allowing fans to pay what they want for the ticket would be the true metric of worth. “But we're going in with our baseline and it may be more than they want to pay,” she said. “But the FOMO hasn't worn off from the past two years so we're kind of creating our own bubble.”
“I think it depends on how you, your artists, and your team approach ticketing,” said Lewis. “One amazing statistic on this Bad Bunny tour came from the Ticketmaster shows we did: over 80% of our tickets were dynamically priced. Certainly, that’s responsible for some high grosses. I think it's incumbent on all of us to have these conversations with our teams and understand what they're comfortable with. Because, if there's any major advancement in our business since COVID, it is ticketing technology and our ability to charge market prices for artists who are willing to do it.”
Byrd asked, “You would make the argument that, as a result of COVID, this is the market correction? Are getting market value for our inventory now because maybe we were under price pre-pandemic?”
Lewis replied, “I think we were just sticking our finger in the wind and guessing in a lot of ways. I certainly understand artists who don't want to feel like they're gouging their fans. But I also feel that there are artists who think, ‘Is it fair for me to sell a front row ticket for $200 and a scalper to resell it for $2,000?”
“I think the other reality is we have a lot of teams making up for lost time,” said Kinder. “That and the cost of doing business. It's all related.” To Byrd’s questions about why there are so many now, she added, “I think it’s a combination of pent-up fan demand and making up for lost revenue. Artists were releasing albums mid-lockdown because that plan was already in place. Most clients are working clients; they make their money on the road. With no ability earn any considerable revenue, the onus was on us to get them back on the road as quickly and safely as possible. I think the fans were ready for the shows as well. It was unanimous. I do think that the way we release music has changed drastically. Somebody may have released mid-pandemic and they’re now ready to release another album and tour it too.”
Acknowledging Strengths and Challenges
“Let’s not forget the trauma of the last year and a half,” said Tannenbaum. “To the industry, but also trauma emotionally. I think we should be incredibly proud that we went through a 100-year event and not everyone lost their jobs. If they did, most have come back. And the business is very healthy. When you asked the question about our strengths, relentless is what came to mind. We powered through the past two years and we’re all here. IEBA is sold out. Everyone is so happy to get back together and so happy to be around each other.”
Kinder added, “I don’t know that everybody has the kumbaya vibe that I felt this year. But I feel a very deep level of empathy and compassion not only for my colleagues but also for some of my competitors, and especially for my clients. I feel that reciprocated to me.”
“I think we’re all sharing information a bit more,” said Pierre. “We’re all more transparent – on the money side and what the consumer sees and how that gets executed.”
Byrd summed up the enumerated strengths: Relentless + Empathy + Transparency. Then he quizzed his panelists about weaknesses and challenges: poor marketing, inaccurate ticket prices, poor communication, subpar hospitality, and added, “You know, the big white elephant in the room – lack of diversity. Any tips on how we can improve on all these things?”
“For me, it is diversity,” said Pierre. “Currently, I am the only female black music agent which, we know, makes no sense. It just doesn't. With the money that's made on black music, you should see people who look like you. We talk about pipelines – internships or all those other things – but there are so many barriers. People of color don't have the privilege, opportunity, or luxury to actually sit in these spaces and spend time going through the ranks. For me, I'm intentional about being a pipeline because people have given me opportunity. In this next phase of my career, my intention – in addition to servicing my clients – is to make sure that, the day I decide to no longer do this, there's someone else and there is more than just one.”
Byrd responded, “I started as an agent in 2006. There was no one in the entire agency that really looked like me. Much of that stems from a lack of mentorship. You need someone in a high-level, executive position to reach their hand back and give you an opportunity. Without that high-level black executive giving me an opportunity, I don't think I ever would have gotten a chance in the music business. I think our business is lacking in mentorship right now. And making sure we have diverse executive boards.”
Lewis agreed, “Mentorship is one of our biggest challenges today. Many of us learned this business sitting outside the office door as an assistant listening in on phone calls, being at shows, and understanding a very hands-on business you can only learn from being in. That has not existed for a couple of years. Two years of not going to shows and two or three years without being in an office. We are all dependent, in our respective businesses, on a strong bench of talent. And we've all got to make sure that we pay close attention to that. Otherwise, it’s great if we all have success but if the next generation doesn't then where are we going.”
For Kinder, there are two weaknesses to address. “The mental health of our relentlessness and working our clients like dogs – we're driving them into the ground,” she said. “There's a delicate balance of what's too much. It's okay not being at every event. And if you're an artist, it's okay not to play every show. I think that starts with agents and managers and business managers knowing when to hit pause. And, in turn, allowing ourselves that same grace.”
Byrd asked his panelists to discuss inflation and the rising cost of doing business. “Do soft ticket events become more valuable to your routing?” he asked. “How do you offset rising expenses and an artist wanting a certain amount of money but getting less money from hard ticket dates?” Neal responded, “If you have an artist on the edge of hard tickets, let's not push it. I think that you must tour smarter, especially as expenses go up. You look at your budget for a run and ask, ‘Does this make sense? Do we need to scale down production? Do we need to cut down a bus to get through it and survive?’ I think those are real conversations you must have face-to-face with your managers, your business managers, and your artists.”
Pierre added, “Part of it is you don't have to do 15-20 cities in one clip. Maybe you do six and do those do amazingly well. That's the calling card for the next leg. What success looks like is changing. And it's going to be different for every artist. You must have those real where-you’re-at-in-your-career conversations. And know that shifting that benchmark doesn't make you unsuccessful. You're just being more strategic.”
“Pre-pandemic, it was easy to be a lazy agent. You made a phone call to Live Nation or AEG or a promoter, you sold your tour to them, you sat back and let them route it and do the work,” said Lewis. “With all respect to our friends at those companies, they're not the artist’s representative. We must make sure that we're doing well by our artists and paying attention to the details that impact their livelihoods. Making a decision not to play as many shows because you might lose money when you shouldn't and making sure that you're connected to the management team and the production team to understand costs – that's our job. It requires a few more minutes of paying attention to details and a few more phone calls but, ultimately, that's what we do for a living.”
“There will always be headwinds,” said Tannenbaum. “Right now, it is inflation. It’s really just about communication and having an honest dialogue with your client, the client’s manager and business manager, and being thoughtful about what you're suggesting and why. Communicate with your client honestly and with integrity. Hopefully, they’ll get what you're saying and trust you to execute in the way you feel is best for them.”
Keys to a Successful Relationship Between Agents and Buyers & Promoters
Byrd asked his panelists about communication, honest conversations, and the keys to successful relationships between agents and buyers & promoters. “It’s often portrayed in an adversarial way,” he said. “But I can tell you that it doesn’t need to be like that. As a buyer, you know a great relationship with your agent is crucial to filling in your festival lineup, programming your season, and even securing a lucrative tour. As an agent, a great relationship with your promoter can fill holes in your routing. It can break some of your developing acts, make you look good to management and, most importantly, get you and your artist paid. It's a truly, mutually beneficial, symbiotic relationship. What do you feel are the keys to a successful partnership or relationship? Is it something as simple as just great communication? Or something else?”
Neal answered, “Communication and having a real relationship. I know some independent promoters who would have gone out of business. So trying to push shows to them to help them recover – that's important. And it's important that we're all still in this at the end of the day. We need each other to survive. We need to have big success stories for our clients. I think it's seeing both sides of the business and understanding how we all gotta win.”
“For me, it is mutual trust,” said Tannenbaum. “My goal is for the promoter to trust me and for me to trust the promoter. Ultimately, trusting in what we're saying to each other and that no one's trying to misdirect anybody. Trust that goes both ways.”
“I think we serve an important role as agents sitting between the artist manager and the promoter,” said Lewis. “One of the most important pieces is being aligned with the goals for any individual artist or tour. It's incumbent on us to make sure everyone on that team – from artist to promoter and everyone in between – understands and mutually agrees on those goals. If we don't, we're running in different directions trying to accomplish different things and we're likely to find ourselves in a tricky situation.”
“I’d say not being so transactional,” added Pierre. “We’ve discussed humanity – as a society and even with our personal relationships. We're making money at the end of the day, but you can't tell the trajectory someone's career is on, on the executive side or as an artist. You're going to see those same people as you grow, as you continue. So, I think that for us to really trust each other – as agents, promoters, buyers, whatever – we can't be as transactional. That whole idea of ‘I just want it done’ is a pitfall, I think. We all have to lean on each other.”
Byrd wrapped by asking for crystal ball predictions for 2023:
Kinder: “Agents, managers, promoters, and labels need to stop signing bands because they had one video go viral on Tik-Tok. It does not translate into ticket sales.”
Neal: “The globalization of music, and country music specifically. I think new markets will be discovered. That's going to be really exciting to see.”
Byrd: “I was in Berlin last week with some of our global Live Nation guys. They were talking about this explosion of country in New Zealand and Australia and how it's just taken over down there.”
Tannenbaum: “I think Bad Bunny will be voted Chairman of the United Nations in 2023. That's my prediction.”
Lewis: “Great idea.”